Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
Hello.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome back to another episode of the Code Free 21 podcast. I have Kyle Blake with me here today. Kyle, how you doing?
[00:00:14] Speaker A: I'm doing great.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Thanks for meeting me this evening and going over some talks about leadership. So if you don't mind, will you just share with the folks a little bit about your background kind, how you got into emergency services and what you're doing today?
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Sure. Probably easiest to start with where I am right now. So currently I'm a lieutenant with the Burlington fire department, assigned to engine one on c shift.
I've been in that role for a little more than a year, and that's where I currently am, where I came from.
That's a longer story. Right. Grew up in Vermont, grew up in Essex, ended up going to college in Boston, went to Northeastern University, and really did not have any plans on coming back this way.
For some of the people that know me, I was more interested in potentially pursuing a career in legal, becoming a lawyer, and due to health situations with my dad, my now wife and I, we moved back here, and I sort of stumbled, tripped, and fell into emergency services. So first job I got back when we moved back to Vermont was I ended up dispatching for the state police, was looking around the area for a job. It seemed interesting. So I ended up dispatching for just shy of five years for the state police out of their Williston barracks. It was a very interesting job, very eye opening, but also frustrating at the same time because you get the call, you hear the problem, you dispatch the resources, and then you don't know what happens.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: And I hated that. I hated that.
So I decided say, huh, maybe I want to start going and seeing those problems.
So my grandparents, actually my mom's parents, were some of the original members of Essex rescue, one of the local ambulance services in the area. And I was, hmm, I'll give that a try. So I started my emergency services career as a volunteer with Essex rescue, which was great. It was interesting. Got my EMT and worked my one shift a week there. And it was fun. But then when we went to some of the cooler calls, like a car accident or a fire, just sat there, and then you saw the guys in the big red truck show up and go do fun stuff.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Like, take the car apart, put the fire, and I go, huh, that seems pretty cool. I want to give that a try. So I went and signed up and joined Essex Junction fire department. Got my fire one and two. They were a great organization. I think I had only been there for about six months or so. And they put me into a fire one and two course run by the Vermont Fire Academy out of the Williston fire department. And I think that's where I first met you. Yeah.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: It was in our first crossing of paths. Little did we know what journey would be ahead.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Little did we know, exactly. Yeah. But that was my first exposure to the fire service. Did that, enjoyed it was a volunteer with junction fire for not that long, actually. And there were a couple other guys there that were either already had made the jump to Burlington fire or were talking about applying there. And I go, huh, let me give that a try. Yeah. And I was super lucky. I applied, interviewed, and I did well enough that they offered me a job. But it was a job that almost did not happen because it was right when my first son was born. So I left the hospital two days after my son was born. My wife and my son were still at the hospital to go to my interview. So I sort of credit that with how my interview went, because you couldn't shake me at that point, because I just wanted to give you the answers so I could go back to my wife and kid. So I wasn't sweating it. I wasn't nervous at all. I walked in, shook hands, gave answers. Cool. We done? Sounds good. Thank you very much.
And honestly, I didn't think I'd get it. And I got a call later on from, at the time, the admin chief, Pete Brown, and he offered me a job, and I turned him down. I said, wow, I wasn't expecting this.
I'm really sorry. I just had a kid.
I've got all my leave from the state job. I've got my benefits.
I can't go start a new job in. I think it was like a short turnaround, too. It was like next month, doing days.
It was ten hour days, Monday through Friday. I was like, I can't do that to my family. Yeah. So I told him, I'm really sorry, but I'm going to have to say no.
And looking back, I think he regrets what he said next just because of some of the headbutting I did with Chief Brown over my career at BFD. But he goes, well, we're going to start another academy in six months. Would you like to do it then? I said, sure. Yeah.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: And then that was my start to the BFD. So in June of 2014, I was a probationary firefighter. Started with a class of four.
Good group of guys.
Battalion chief of training Scott Crady. It was his first time in that role. He had just been promoted and he ran our academy. I want to say it was maybe eight weeks on days, and then you hit the floor, and the rest is sort of history, as they say.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: It's a long, convoluted path that we.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Weave here and now. I've been there for nine and a half years. Yeah.
And I don't think I'd change a thing. I feel very fortunate with where I ended up. The shift I was put on the cruise I was put with.
I credit those people with why I'm still here.
It was interesting. I was not your probably traditional applicant for the fire service. I had never thought about being a firefighter as a kid. It was just something that I never really thought about.
I want to argue with people.
Shocking.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: I would have never guessed right.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: I don't care what the argument is about, and I don't care what side of the argument you put me on. I want to argue with you about it. I want to debate with you about it and stuff. And so it just never crossed my mind to do this job. But the more that I learned about it, saw what you got to do, that you had the opportunity to go into situations where things that were truly horrible or unfortunate had happened to people who didn't ask for it, didn't deserve it, and you had the chance to make things better for them. I'm like, that's Pretty cool.
And then on top of that, you get to hang around with a great group of guys at the firehouse and laugh, tell jokes, train, learn, and it's like, it's not a desk job, and it's great. And I enjoy the one. Another funny experience I had sort of in my career development at BFD was my first sort of exposure to our now chief of training and safety, battalion chief Troy Ruggles was in my fire instructor class, and I don't think he was the lead, but he had came in, he was teaching a segment on it and forget. I think I gave a presentation, and we were at a break, and he comes over to me, he goes, is this what you always wanted to do? And I go, no. And he goes, you're not what I'm used to. And I didn't know if I should take it as a compliment or an insult or what, but he did right by me. He passed me, and I worked with him closely now, and he's one of the guys that I look up to and I really value and that experience. But it was just. It was just a gentle little reminder to me that, like, I'm. I'm not sort of what you typically see coming through the door.
And it's been good. It's also been bad. Yeah. I think you've known me and you've known my experience at BFD, and it's been rocky at times. I'm not afraid to ask the questions. I'm not afraid to challenge up, sometimes inappropriately. But I've learned and I've had a lot of great. And I think this is that segue into sort of that leadership piece of it. I've had a lot of great. Both official leaders of me sort of in my chain and the unofficial leaders of me that have taken the time to invest their time in me and given me opportunities or helped me see what I couldn't see at the time to help me move forward and get that promotion. Right. Be prepared to test for lieutenant.
Do well on the test rank where I did on the list. Get an amazing spot with an amazing crew. Right. Like, I owe it a lot to the members of the BFD that I came up under.
Yeah. So leadership, I think, is something that can make or break your career in the fire service because it can be the best job in the world when things are going great. It can also be a horrible job when it's just nonstop BS calls that give you nothing in return for what you're putting into them, and you're run down and you're tired. And if you have a crappy leader, why stay? It's tough. Right?
[00:10:31] Speaker B: It's tough, man.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Right. But if you have someone that motivates you or you want to work for, you can easily sort of set that stuff aside and be like, no, this isn't what's going to break me. Right. So, yeah, I think that was a very long answer to where I came from and where I am now.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: I think it's a really good look into how your brain works. It's something I've always enjoyed about working with you is when I came in, you were a few years in the department, and I kind of look at it as almost like high school. Like, when you come in, you're like a freshman, you're new to the school. You don't really know anybody. And so that people who are off probation but not quite senior firefighters yet are like the juniors and seniors. They're the kids with the cars and hanging out. They know kind of how things work. They know how to take care of all the younger people. And so your crew and that group of them. Jason, sureest you. Fitzy, all those guys. When I came in, I was always looking up to you. And so watching you grow over the years, especially when you became union president, that was mean. I can see why you wanted to be a lawyer. I mean, just the amount of thought. I've never met anyone in my life that can have one earbud in and listen to a three hour city council meeting while doing a perfectly written EMS chart. I mean, your brain is like a freak show. I mean, it's amazing at times.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Other times, it's scary, too, right? Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: It's power beyond measure. So I think that's really cool. And I think the common denominator we have is our interactions with Chief Troy Ruggles. I mean, he is one of the best leaders I've ever had the privilege to work for. And what I really appreciated about him is I'm very similar to you and how my brain works and what I need to feel stimulated and to feel appreciated and valuable. And there were so many times that he just sat with me and just listened to the constant barrage of ridiculous ideas and thoughts I had. And he just helped shape me into who I am today. And he didn't tell me what to think or tell me what to do. He just provided me with perspective and these small little adjustments where I would come back into his office three days later and be like, oh, my goodness, chief, I figured it out.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: And he'd be like, yeah, I figured.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: That out 20 years ago, but you got to do it on your own. And that was such a different approach than I had ever dealt with before. And I can tell you, every leader I really struggled with were leaders who were know. Shut up. Sit down. You're junior. Don't open your mouth. Don't think. Do what I tell you. I'll let you know if you need to know something. And I just don't do well in that environment. And I felt like Chief Ruggles never did that to me, ever.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Chief Ruggles is definitely someone that I've valued my time that I've spent with him, right, running the recruit academies with you, and then after you left, just me and Chief Ruggles, right. And he is the type of person that lets you be you, right. He listens to you. He'll help guide you a little bit, but he also gives you some latitude to learn and grow on your own. And I think that's important. That sort of experimenting, especially in your own leadership style, is important because if the only thing you do is try to copy the leaders that are one particular leader, right, or you read one book on it and you're like, I'm going to do it this way. Well, guess what? That worked great for that individual in those circumstances.
That doesn't mean it's going to work great for me. Right? There are some great leaders in BFD, but when I try to emulate sort of their style or think about how could I apply that, I just go, no, I can't do it. It works great for them because of their personality, because of their history, their background, it works great for them. But for young, developing leaders in a career where you fall under this chain of command, but also due to circumstances, you're operating with autonomy at times, like out in the field, having to make your own decisions, there's got to be a little bit of that motherbird pushing you out of the nest and being okay with the mess ups that you're going to make, with the failures that you're going to have, the times that you step on your own nose, right.
The first time I took the recruit academy down to the fire academy, sort of unsupervised, pissed a lot of people off, right. Because I ran things completely differently than the fire academy was sort of used to. And I think you and I sort of ran it the same way of we had very high expectations for them. Right. This is not a job you should take lightly. And the last thing that we wanted people to do in their first experience, their first time meeting the fire service of learning about it is to think that it's easy and it's safe. Yeah. So we pushed them hard.
And I didn't like it when I was told that I was pushing them too hard by people that were part.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Of the whole story, that weren't part.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Of the whole story or I've never seen engage in it or whatnot.
So I came across and I tell my son this now, too. I go, sometimes when I'm talking to you, just close your eyes and don't look at my face because my face is telling one story, but it's not what I'm truly feeling. Right.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: It betrays you.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it betrays me. So often my face betrays me. And it did. But Chief Ruggles let me do that. He knew it was going to happen.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: And he swept up behind me and he smoothed things over and we had a chat afterwards and I learned. I was like, yeah, I was an asshole. I was an idiot.
The guys down there at the fire academy are awesome. Like the career staff down at the fire academy have helped us out, have helped me out so much with our last couple academies.
You go down there and it's like, hey, we'd really like to use that prop. When do you want it? We'll have it out for you. Right. They're amazing.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: And I discredited so much just because they weren't out there running pt with us in the morning. Right. And it was like, who cares? Yeah. Right? They're a great group of guys that have done so much to move the fire service forward and ensure that future generations are prepared and trained.
I need to embrace and, like, that was something that Chief Rogel sort of let me experience on my own and make myself look like an idiot and then learn how to rebuild those relationships. Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: I read something online that just, you made me think of about when we were doing the recruit academy. I really struggled sometimes. When we had recruits that were very different from you and I, I had a hard time trying to figure out how to work with them and how to connect with them. And I saw this thing online and maybe my iPhone was listening to me, but it said, you wouldn't use an axe to cut your hair and you wouldn't use a razor to cut a tree. Everyone has a different skill set.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: I disagree with some of the people we've met in the recruit academy. They might try to do that, but, yes, I get the.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: And like you said, those fire academy instructors, I mean, their job isn't really to run 9 miles. That's not what they're designed to do. That's not what they're expected to do. Therefore, they shouldn't be judged on that metric.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: And I think what we talked about with not seeing the full story, there's this kind of analogy that people always talk about with any type of training. If you imagine you're in a plane, it doesn't really feel like anything. When you're on the ground, it doesn't really feel like anything when you're at 35,000ft, but on takeoff and landing, it feels aggressive. It's very uncomfortable when you get pulled back into your seat and you're climbing and your ears are popping. The change in altitude, the change in situation sometimes is when you feel the biggest difference. So for the recruits that we bring to the fire academy, it's not the first time that they're running laps or doing push ups. They've been doing this for months and months and months. But if it's the first time that these other folks have integrated with a system like that and they've seen, maybe they're not used to people doing push ups in between sessions.
We're used to it. We've been doing it for weeks and weeks and weeks. So they're already at that cruising altitude. They don't have it. It's normal to them.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: But it's very new to the other staff. And I think what you and I have talked about and what you probably came to the conclusion on is that sometimes warming up the surroundings a little bit to what you're going to do is just as important as actually doing what you're doing.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And I couldn't have said it any better. And that's a great analogy for it because, yeah, we would do a training burn and our crew would come out, and I would get tired of sitting there waiting while other crews were going in. So we'd start doing pt with them. And Chief Ruggles had to, I think, sort of fight back some of the fire academy staff being like, what is Blake doing? Those kids are going to die. And Ruggles just had to look at me and be like, just trust me, not our kids.
This is not the first time they've done that. No. Right.
But he let me experience that little bit of mild embarrassment to look back and be like, why did I have to be that way? Right. And that was important, and it's not the first time, and it probably won't be the last time. Let's face it. I'm becoming more self aware, and that's important.
But it's people like chief Ruggles that are so crucial in, I think, the fire service because we don't have the calls that are going to train people to be leaders anymore. We don't have the volume of the high stress, critical calls that shaped former generations of the fire service. And now. So it's about just leading people and engaging in people. And there are people that have probably been in the fire department now that you and I brought in in a recruit academy that have never seen me actually in a structure fire. Barring a training. Yeah, barring a training. Right. So they have no idea.
They have an assumption, but they have no idea how I'm actually going to perform in that structure fire or not.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Based off of your performance.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: My performance in a. And I'm not trying to use it lately, but combat setting right in that aggressive, like, it's hitting the fan.
How is Lieutenant Blake going to. Right. Like, hopefully, if we get one of those scenarios, they'll be like, okay, that's good. I'm going to continue to follow them, but they're going to base their initial assumption to whether they want to follow me or not into that seemingly horrible situation on all the little interactions that I've had with them throughout their career, whether it be in the recruit academy, if they're a member on my shift, as a junior member, like, how I treated them as a person, how I helped them grow, did I take time to answer their questions, or was I dismissive? Was I an ass to them? And I think that's something that Chief Ruggles has really.
He's been one of the people, especially in the role know, leading the recruit academy with you and then on my own, that's helped me sort of see that, because you have no other choice but to lead people in that setting. Right. Like, they show up, you're standing in front of them, and they immediately just are like, that's the guy that's leading me. I have to follow him. They don't have a choice at that point.
And so learning how to do that and to motivate them has been a rewarding experience as well, and learning my own sort of leadership style afterwards. Right. I think we've talked about it as well. And there was a whole shift with what the department was even hiring for. Right.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: And that's another interesting thing, is being someone who came in when I did, when it wasn't the old, old guard, but there were still components of the old guard there of an expectation that you knew how to change the chain on a chainsaw, you knew how a carburetor worked the tool chest test.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: I still got those.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Give me this. Give me that. Right.
Those types of things.
To having a recruit, when we were teaching them how to don and doff their fire gear, look at me deadpan and go, when I go to put those fire pants on, do I take my duty pants off first?
And it's just like. That's a great question. I never thought to address that. I never thought to.
Yeah, no, good question. Thank you. No, you keep those on. Right. And it's like, how do you adapt to the new sort of member of the fire service as well? And that's been an interesting experience for me as well. And once again, I think this speaks to the, you can't just try to mimic that one person who is a great leader for you because you're a unique individual. And what resonated with you, what made you successful doesn't mean that's going to work for the people beneath you. And so that was where I needed some come to Jesus talks in a closed bunk room with my senior guy just being like, are you an idiot.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Do you realize what you said?
[00:24:59] Speaker A: I'll be like, oh, yeah, damn it.
There are certain people I can think of that have gone through the recruit academy with us that I go like, you could never have that sort of grab them by the collar and shake them and be like, straighten up.
Right.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Ruggles used to always tell us about, like. And one of the things. My favorite part of my whole BFD career was working in the train division with you and ruggles. And I think part of that was.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Because we all had our areas of.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Strengths and we had our areas of weaknesses. And so if we needed, for whatever reason, needed to smoke the recruits, and we needed to run an exorbitant amount of miles with some ridiculous object that we're carrying, and they need to move a fire hydrant, seven city blocks or whatever, that was your realm.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: If we had a recruit that lost all their confidence and can barely tie their shoes and can't even look you in the eyeballs, that's my realm. I know how to build up that psychology. I know how to take care of them. If someone can't test well on an exam or they have anxiety, I can work with that. If they need to learn about team dynamics, that's a strength that we both have, right? If somebody needs to go to dad, we have chief Ruggles. Right? And I love that we had those different strength areas. And recognizing that I don't need to be chief Ruggles, because chief Ruggles is chief Ruggles, sometimes all I need to do is recognize that's what that person would benefit from and make the connection.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: And that's. Sometimes the hard part is like taking, swallowing your pride a little bit and recognizing that you may not be able to be the best person at everything. And sometimes being a leader is just locating the right resource, not trying to become the right resource.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah. And I think when we were doing it together, that was what was nice about it, right? Because, yeah, I would do crazy stuff. I would wake up and I'd be like, that was a horrible shift.
What are we going to do for PT?
[00:27:00] Speaker B: What if we swam in the frozen lake?
[00:27:02] Speaker A: What if. Yeah, that's a whole nother story. I've never seen Chief Ruggles so worried when we did that swim.
But once again, he let me do it.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: He sat on his hands and he breathed through it. He woo sat his way to the other side.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: I know Chief Ruggles has seen a lot of stuff in his career, and I might be too, in my own horn, but I don't think I've ever seen him as nervous as he was when.
What was that group of six, seven six, and me entered Lake Champlain at North beach and then didn't come back out until we got over to Oakledge.
Just hearing him with the constant updates, with the guys in the boats and him radioing them or calling them, be like, how are they? Are they okay?
I think he legitimately thought that one of them wouldn't come out of the water, but he had faith in me, and he let me do it. And that was, like, on a side note, that was the most horrific thing I've ever done.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Oh, for sure.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: It was brutal. It was brutal. I couldn't feel my legs when we got out. But, yeah, it was great, though. And I think one of the other things, too, and this sort of goes into, I think, developing people is allowing them to have moments in their career that they can look back at and have pride in that they accomplished, because I wanted to build them into a unit where they knew they needed each other, because firefighting is a team sport. We talk about that all the time.
You need your crew members there with you to make things better. We need bodies, and we also need to be able to count on each other and being able to build that sort of team mentality of understanding that, like, we just talked about, too. Even as a leader, you can't always be the person running point.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: And I think you're 100% right. And what we were talking about with those going into Lake Champlain and doing the runs and all those other things, one of the things I think people that we interacted with didn't understand is the depth at which those things went. It wasn't that you dreamt up doing these physical activities to punish people or demonstrate dominance. Every single thing we had recruits do was well thought out and designed to elicit a particular response. So, like, say you put them in the entrapment, right. The goal there is, even if you are so entrapped that you can't make it through the entrapinator, we need you to be able to get to a place where you recognize that you cannot self rescue and call for help.
Because we know that the statistics clearly show that firefighters die when they get entrapped because they do not call for help. So when the recruits are like, that's unwinnable scenario, that's stupid, blah. Sometimes the lesson is knowing that you are beat and calling for help so you can win.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: Right?
[00:30:05] Speaker B: And that's the lesson. And so every time we do these exercises or put people in an uncomfortable position, it's because we need to know if you're claustrophobic. We need to know that you recognize. I am claustrophobic, okay? I'm feeling claustrophobic. I'm going to do my box breathing, I'm going to think about it, or at a minimum call for help or get your partner aware of what's going on to assist you. Because being suffering in silence and crawling into a closet three times in the middle of a live burn when I pull you out tells me that you're not aware of what's happening to your body.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: So our job as recruit academy instructors isn't just to teach you how to tie a knot, it's how to understand what's happening in your head and make sure that you never get caught in a situation where your sympathetic nervous system basically shuts out all of the stimulus to the point that you die because you can't think.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Right. And like you talked about, what is an unwinnable situation, an unwinnable situation for us, is you're dead. Yeah, right. You're dead. And so what can we instill in you to hedge the bet, to take away luck?
It wasn't that you got lucky.
You had the skills to not die. Right. And so with that entanglement prop or some of the stuff that I had them do in the drager trailer, it would purposely lock them up. And it's that recognition of I need help, I've called for help. That doesn't mean they show up like that, like they're not a genie. You don't all of a sudden press your mayday button and three rit guys show up with extra air, a k twelve. And like a sledgehammer, they're like, let's go. Okay. How long did it take you to get in there? Yeah, how long is it going to take them to get in there? And so it's then down regulating, it's instilling that down regulation of being able to be like, okay, I'm going to be here for a little bit, what can I do?
So that way I'm still here when Rick comes. Right.
And I think that was another great piece of what we did, is helping them with that.
It's pushing people in unorthodox ways. And I think that's one of the biggest changes that we brought around, was that we moved away from just pure fire and pure ems.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: And that's the thing, dude, is like it needs to start in your mind and your spirit and then work its way out to your skills and everything else was always based on skill, performance. But if you couldn't get someone to manage their own stress and manage their mind, the stress you get from being entangled in an entrapinator or in a real fire is the same stress you might get at city hall park at three in the morning when you have 17 people screaming in your face.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: And so our job is not only to make sure you know how to take a blood pressure, but how can you control your breathing and control your mind and work through that process? And everything from swimming in cold water, to carrying hard suction, to being entrapped, to having difficult testing, to being asked questions. All those stress inoculation pieces in the recruit academy teach the individual how to manage themselves under that pressure, and therefore your skills are better. That's the fundamental core of the entire academy. Yeah, 100%, man. No, I think we've talked about a bunch of great stuff here. I think the keys to remember are it's okay that things are changing. Pay attention to your people. You won't know what you're capable of unless you're challenged and pushed to a place where you have potential to grow. And that's what new academies do that's.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: So valuable, but that should be happening at every single point in your career. Oh, yeah. And that's also how you grow as a leader and uncomfortable being put in uncomfortable situations where you have to, like, the guy that you were just sitting at the table joking with and clowning with. You now need to be sitting in your office looking across to them being like, hey, man, did you really do that? I got this complaint here.
Yeah.
Why are you busting my balls about that, dude? Yeah.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Finding that balance.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And being okay with that as well, because that's the part of, I think, being a company officer, no one likes having to actually discipline somebody, have those uncomfortable conversations.
And so, once again, you need to be put, regardless of where you are in your career. I think in order to grow as a leader, as a firefighter, as an individual who follows somebody, too, as a follower, you need to be put in uncomfortable situations that make you think, that make you stop, pause and think. And that's important.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: 100%. I was watching, I don't know if you've ever seen. I was watching Ted Lasso on Apple TV. Plus, it's like he's the american football coach that goes over and teaches soccer. If you haven't seen it, you should watch it. Because he essentially applies the same concepts that we use in the recruit academy to his team. And they end up winning a bunch of games and stuff, but it's just about like, build the team and the person first.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: The winning will follow. Yeah. And that's huge. I have seen the show. I haven't committed to watching it yet because it's got too many side plots.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: There's a lot of them. It's hard to keep up.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: The guys make fun of me on shift for this because I won't sit there and watch movies with them. Sometimes too much because unless I can fast forward through parts that have nothing to do with the main plot, I don't want to waste my time watching it. Yeah, that's just a meism.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. A brief look into the mind of Kyle Blake.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Yeah, very brief. Well, I don't know how brief this has been, but it's been a lot of looking into my mind.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: That's right.
Stay safe out there and we'll catch you on the next one.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Sounds good.
