The Kitchen Table

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome back to another episode of the Code 321 podcast. Thought we'd do something different this month. I brought four of my good buddies in. We're gonna chat just a little bit about the fire service. Joining me tonight, as always, we have Prescott. Prescott, how you doing, man? Good. [00:00:22] Speaker C: How are you? [00:00:22] Speaker B: Thanks for joining. Appreciate it. And also special guest on the podcast tonight, Dave. Whitney King and Eddie are joining us all the way virtually from Connecticut and Colchester, respectively. Dave, what's going on over there? How you doing? [00:00:37] Speaker A: Oh, just hanging out. Happy to be here, boys. [00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for coming back. You're actually a season one guest. If you remember, way back, you, me and Matt did an episode at Green Mountain messenger way back in the day. So thanks for coming back to the show. Appreciate it. [00:00:50] Speaker A: I do remember that. Happy to be here. [00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Whitney, welcome. First time, first time guest, maybe longtime listener, maybe not. Who knows? How you doing down there in Connecticut? Good. [00:01:01] Speaker D: Doing well. Doing well. Good. Glad to catch up with you guys. Not through group chat, but yeah, virtually face to face. [00:01:09] Speaker B: I know it's nice to do something other than send memes and old photos with no context. I feel like it's good that we actually connected and do that. So, Eddie, thanks for jumping on, man. I know you're busy down there, but appreciate you being here, man. [00:01:23] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's good, man. So, Whitney, if you don't mind, you want to just. Just because we haven't had you on before, do you want to just share a little bit about how did you even find your way to the fire service and. And what are you doing now? [00:01:40] Speaker D: So the interview answer, I guess, would be, you know, I didn't grow up wanting to be a firefighter. It just kind of happened, I suppose. Dave and I worked together. Dave was my boss at Mexicali in Williston. Yeah. The bartender at the time was the daughter of, at that time, Williston Fire department. And every 9 11, he had a group that flew flags at Taft Corners. Um, so Dave and I were convinced to go. Well, we wanted to, but we went and flew flags at. At Taps Corners. After that, we had a little tour of the firehouse. We were, you know, being kind of like minded. Dave and I are very much alike, I'd say. I think we took a lot from that. That tour. That was probably my first time actually in a firehouse. So the next day at work, we were BSing and we're like, yeah, that was pretty cool yesterday. And obviously Wilson's combination call and career. So I go to Dave I was like, I think I want to join the call staff. He goes, seriously? I'm like, yeah. He's like, yeah, me too. So it's like we're both thinking the same thing. And then I think the next day probably went and joined. We went and joined the call staff. And so we get our gear, we get everything. Our first drill day, we have a major. The Saputo cheese factory fire. Yeah. So that was our entrance into the fire service. We were told to never expect that to ever happen again. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. We were literally walking out that. We were walking out the door after training. And the captain at the time's like, I wouldn't leave if I was you guys. Like, there's a big fire. Big fire in Hinesburg, where Prescott is now the chief. And we all loaded into the ladder, and we didn't get. It. Didn't take us long to get there. [00:03:59] Speaker D: I was. I was. I remember it being literally like. Like the movies where I'm like, so we're given a hood. We're given a jacket. We're getting turnouts. I don't know how to put this stuff on. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:14] Speaker D: So I'm like, whatever is Ladder 69. And that one, when the. When that probie's watching, the senior guy, like, put the hood on. So I put the. You know, like, I'm watching with the. The guy sitting across from me. I think I was in the jump seat, like, doing whatever he's doing, because I have no clue what to do. So it was. It was. We were literally that green. It was awesome. So I think we both. We both got a pretty good taste entering it. And so I. And I didn't know it was my career path. [00:04:50] Speaker B: I was. [00:04:50] Speaker D: You know, I was a kitchen manager at Mexicali. Dave owned Mexicali. Eventually, firefighting pretty much took over our lives. I literally. I didn't know the route to go. There was a bunch of guys at the Williston. They were like, we're gonna go take our cpass. I was like, I'll go take my cpat, too. And then they're like, we're gonna go look for jobs on governmentjobs.com and I was like, well, I'm gonna do that, too. Found Norwalk. I had no clue where Connecticut was, because I grew up in Vermont and didn't know much outside of Vermont. Applied to Norwalk, found that took my cpat. Two years later, I went through the whole process. You know, Vermont, I'm used to, you know, four or five people applying to a job. I went down There took the test. There was 1300 people taking the test. I was like, there's no way I'm going to get this job. But it was a good experience. Right. So two years later, I get the notice in the mail. You've been accepted. You're the top 50. So I said I brought it. I should actually, you know, follow through on getting the cpat. At the time, it wasn't in Vermont, so I had to go down to Connecticut to get it. So, yeah, now 14 years later, I'm a lieutenant riding engine one in Norwalk. But, yeah, that's pretty much my career path and condensed version. Yeah. [00:06:26] Speaker B: And I always love that story because you and Dave kind of came into this together. So you guys are always kind of thick as thieves. And one of the things that a lot of the listeners probably don't know is that I don't think, Wendy, you and I ever directly work with each other, but we've been good friends for a long time just because we're kind of part of the same group. You had left just before I got there. I think, you know, Dave and Prescott were kind of the common thread, you know. And then you and Eddie were out down in Connecticut. And I know when I was looking for jobs, I tested also down in Norwalk, and I, I went down there and both you and Eddie were great. And I think it's one of the things that's so cool about the fire service is that, you know, you don't just because you, you know, you didn't necessarily work with someone directly. You know, you're from the same department, you're from the same friend group. Like, you know, I stayed at your house. You know, it's. It was real nice to have that support as a young guy trying to figure out what I was trying to do, you know. That was really cool. [00:07:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:19] Speaker D: That's one of the great things about the fire services. Doesn't matter where you're from, we all walk the same. Walk the same line, essentially. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And Dave, what was it about the fire department that drew you in? Cause like, you were, you were kind of a food service guy for a long time. You worked at the grocery store, you're running restaurants, you're cooking. You know what? And now you're a full time firefighter. You've been for a long time. What drew you in and kept you over there? What was it about that? [00:07:47] Speaker A: Well, the funny thing is, when I was in high school, I was dating a daughter of a fire captain on bfd. And so whenever there were big Large structure fires. My girlfriend would call me up at 2 in the morning, you know, North Winooski's got five buildings on fire right now. Come pick me up. And so we'd go. And so we'd, you know, we'd go sparking fires, right? So I always had that interest. My grandfather was a police officer in Burlington. Always kind of, you know, had interest in it. But again, similar to Whitney, you know, I didn't. There wasn't a lot of. I had direction for my parents, but I didn't know anybody that directly was there to push me into the fire service. I wasn't really looking for it. Really didn't even know what I was looking for at that point in time. And so when the time came, like Whitney had mentioned, you know, we had the restaurant. We're working together. The fire chief's daughter's working there. And, you know, I remember one morning, we were. When we were applying for the Williston Fire Department, also hear this car come flying up a pedestrian way in between two buildings in a commercial right outside the back door of our restaurant. And there's the fire chief. It's like, see you guys tonight, right? You know, so it's kind of like, you know, we're there, and then, like Whitney said, like, we all probably know you get sucked into it, right? It's like an addiction. It's, you know, you get in there, you get a taste of it, and you just go with it. You know, every day you want to improve and you want to just be the best that you can be. Then it's, you know, it's kind of one of those things where, like, making a difference, like, getting there, getting your hands dirty. I don't. I'm not the kind of guy that's going to sit behind a desk. [00:09:20] Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure. And Prescott, I kind of always assumed that you just hatched behind the fire engine at Williston, but did you. Did you. What brought you over there and how did you get into all that? [00:09:32] Speaker C: The quick version is I moved across the street from the fire chief nominator there, had the courage to go ask and see what the fire service was all about. And I was super young at the time, so he was like, yeah, it's good stuff. But here is some books to read as tied you over until you could put bunker gear on. And the rest, as they say, is history, because the first time I put the bunker gear on, I, in essence, did hatch behind the Wilson fire truck and just got brought right up through the fire service. And, man, literally have not looked back. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah, you must save a lot of money on skincare. You look about the same as you did back in 2004. I saw a picture of you the other day. You look exactly the same. [00:10:15] Speaker C: Okay. [00:10:16] Speaker A: You still look 16. [00:10:18] Speaker C: Yeah, it works wonders for my chiefly career, too. You know, no mustache. Complete inability to grow mustache. [00:10:26] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:10:27] Speaker B: You walk in, they're like, oh, when's your father gonna arrive? [00:10:30] Speaker D: Are you the probie? [00:10:33] Speaker C: I promise I'm here to help. [00:10:35] Speaker A: That's funny. Today when we saw you, Prescott and I unrolled the window. After I rolled the window up and we set our high. Brooks, like, how old is he again? [00:10:43] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:10:44] Speaker B: No one knows. [00:10:45] Speaker C: It's a mystery driving a cop car, too. [00:10:47] Speaker B: It's a secret. [00:10:48] Speaker A: I told him you were 36. [00:10:50] Speaker B: It's. [00:10:50] Speaker C: It. You're close. Two years off. Two years off. [00:10:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:53] Speaker C: I won't say which direction, I think. [00:10:55] Speaker D: Prescott, what was it like? You're the. The youngest person at Wilson to ever get checked off on all the rigs. [00:11:02] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, I'll take. I'll take some of that. [00:11:04] Speaker D: Probably the longest tenured, too, maybe. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure. It got checked off. Took a while in the brush truck, though. That pickup truck really, really stumped them. I think one of the things that's so fascinating about the fire service is this culture that we all share, you know, and how we love it so much. And one of the things I. I just want to touch on and get your input on is, you know, what about the fire service makes us stay? You know, I. I think we have a lot of co workers, and I think ourselves and our group chat, you know, just like any workplace, you know, a lot of us, you know, have tough days, and a lot of our co workers have tough days. But, you know, all of you, with the exception of me, are still in the fire service. So. What. What keeps you around? You know, like Whitney, when you go to work? What. What makes you feel good and what makes you feel like you're in the right spot? [00:11:53] Speaker D: It's just the people, you know, having a good crew. Other than, you know, I always say, what's today gonna bring? You know? Yeah, it's always a mystery. You know, it's all. It's all new stuff, but, you know, a lot. A lot of. A lot of makes or breaks is the people around you and having a good crew. But I've. I don't know. For some reason, I've always been. Had an affinity since. Not always, but, you know, since. Since that day I spoke about, like, there's just something I've always loved. You know, my first year everyone jokes about is like, you know, we have all our holidays and vacations and whatever. Like, when I got to December, they're like, you have to take the entire month off because you haven't taken on your holidays. Because I just. I just loved being there. You know, I was like, I'll work here for free because I just want to be here. I want to be here for, you know, for the jobs, for. Just to be around the guys. Because I just like being at the firehouse. It's just. It's a nice place to be. And like I said, having the right crew and just, you know, being, you know, there's some of my best friends. You know, my parents are still in Vermont. So, you know, my senior guy, when I got on, was pretty much like a father figure for me that down there, you know, took care of me, you know, showed me. Showed me all about the, you know, bring me up in the fire service, in the career. So that, I mean, it's just, you know, this is. This is what I'm down here for. So it's. It's kind of unique for me by saying with Eddie, like, what. What I know is the Noah Fire Department. So it's. It's. It's literally my second family. You know, obviously my second family, but I probably see them sometimes more than my first family. But, you know, that's. That's the reality of it. But I just. I just. The job is, you know, it's just. I don't know, it's just draws me in still to this day. [00:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like sometimes I think you don't notice what you have until you leave it. I know out of this group, I'm the only one that truly left the fire service. And I think a lot of people associate that with, like, oh, you know, he didn't want to be a firefighter anymore, or he didn't love the fire department, or he's busy doing something else. And I think the real answer is, like, I still deeply love the fire service, and I'll never. I'll never lose that. Like, I'll always be in love with the fire service. It's just something that you don't. You don't. You don't let go. It's just one of those things where circumstances change and you do different things, you know, and. And I think, like you mentioned, there's really nowhere like it. I mean, the idea that, you know, I used to pick up people's kids from school, you know, and, like, help them out and, you know, hook them up with family events and do what we can. Like, you don't get that at a bank. You know, you don't get that at a. At a, you know, insurance company. It's just. It's so different, man. And it's. It's a really special place, for sure. You know, and. And Prescott, you've kind of transitioned. You've had a big jump here. You left the department, you kind of grew up and came up through, and now you're the fire chief of a new department. You know, what's been. What's been the common thread that you see across these different departments that's. That's tying people together? Like, what. What cultural aspects do you see that. That really are special to those departments that you're working with? [00:15:13] Speaker C: So the neat thing about going to a different department is, like, you guys were joking about earlier, it's for. For a long time, Williston is all I knew. And although that was awesome, I also respect the fact that getting a little bit outside that has showed me some of those different perspectives. And to answer your question, Nick, I think the big thing is everyone, wherever they're at. Norwalk, Connecticut, Williston, Vermont, Heinzburg, you know, you know, we have. Wherever you're at, right. It's the common denominator is people. Whether you're a volunteer, paid, doesn't matter. Right. People are there for their community. And so Whitney was saying, right. You know, he's about the people in the firehouse. And then at the end of the day, there's that Anchorage, Alaska, saying, you know, I'm not here for me, I'm here for we, and we are here for them. And so at the end of the day, that I think inadvertently or very much definitively defines what most of us, whether it be all. Where we all hail from, it's a. It's about the people we serve. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure. And, Dave, you've kind of had a unique perspective on this because you have spent a lot of time with the USAR teams deploying all over the country. So you're probably integrated with a lot of firefighters and first responders from all over the country, not just, you know, the Northeast or New England. What have you noticed that's, like, common between all those other folks? You know, like, when you go to, let's say, Louisiana or Florida, do you feel like you're at home when you walk into a fire station? And if so, like, what is it that makes you feel like that? [00:16:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, our team is. We have mostly police officers, firefighters, some state fire marshals, and yeah, we've the. When we've deployed to hurricanes, and lots of times we are staged at firehouses, and you walk in, you get there. It's like walking into your own family's house. They're like, oh, here, you can have my room. Don't worry about it. I'll sleep on the couch. You know, we're going to make you dinner. We're going to. And it's. They're just. It's great. And we sit around and do what we're doing right now, you know, have some good, good kitchen table talk and talk about experiences and the differences between, you know, how our departments operate in. But at the end of the day, we're all doing the same job differently. And like Whitney said, it comes really comes down to the people that you work with. And that's going to make or break how your day goes and how your career goes. And, you know, that's what you find when you're in those other states and other departments, whether it be volunteer or a career. They're always. The arms are always wide open. They don't even know who you are. They've never met you, but they're trusting you with their family and their community's lives, you know, and it's. It's just. I think that that's the same way that we all feel about the people we work with. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Eddie, what do you think, man? Like, what do you think is special about the fire service? What makes, what makes people stay and, and why do, why do people love this job so much? [00:18:05] Speaker E: What makes everybody like the camaraderie, really? The camaraderie, the ball busting, all that stuff. Like you guys said, it's just. It's literally like your brothers and sisters. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:14] Speaker C: There's no ball busting in the fire service. [00:18:16] Speaker E: Oh, yeah. Oh, we definitely get in trouble here, that's for damn sure. [00:18:19] Speaker D: Every other day. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, like, I know for me, one of the, the things that I noticed the most, you know, doing, you know, 12, 13 years on the fire service for me is like that kitchen table and that environment is so special. And I have yet to find anything that's remotely similar to that vibe. You know, for me, where I work now, working out of the airport, you know, flying the helicopter, you know, it's kind of just a. It's just a base, you know, it's just a desk chair, a computer. It's just a easy bake oven where we make our food, and then we fly and take care of patients, and we leave. It's not really much beyond that. And I remember coming in the firehouse, you know, you can't wait to get in the kitchen. That's. That's where, like, the hub of every. The whole universe spins around that place. You know, the coffee's hot, people are busting each other's balls. Shift change on a good shift, when you have good overlap between two shifts, that can last an hour and a half, two hours, you know, like, that's. That's a really special environment. And I don't know if you guys have any other experience, but I have yet to find another place that has that same vibe where you can feel like that, you know, with the guys you work with. [00:19:27] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's definitely something that shapes you. When I got on my chief. My chief, he's still there. He's still a deputy chief now. He got on in 74 or so, so he's a bit. But he's like, the way it shapes you is. You know, I. I see. I. I remember him saying this, and I. I see it now. It's like when you're at parties and people, like, sometimes you just can't relate with them. You know, it's like. It's like you want to be at places with your. With other firefighters because you can. You can relate with them. They're. You know, people talk about some corny stuff, and, you know, then they. What's the craziest thing you've ever seen at that time? You know, it's like, yeah, really? Like, no, I don't want to do that. But it's just. It's. I remember something he said. Let me try to. He's like, you're gonna. You're gonna see your friends get divorced. You. You might see your friends die. You might see your friends go through addictions. You might have addictions yourself. He's like, there. There's nothing quite like this place. And it's. It really. It really does shape you. And it's like, I've seen all that. You know, we've had. We've had a few. A few active guys die, a couple of cancer, one of addiction himself. It's just. It's. It's. It's a place that, like you said, there's nothing quite like it, and it definitely shapes you and molds you and a lot. So that. That's something I notice is like, you know, you just want to. You know, being around the people that can relate with you, and it shapes you that way. Not to get deep and dark, but. And that's the reality of the job. You know, you're going to see all that stuff. It's. It's a unique place that really gets a hold of you. So. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think just reiterating that it never leaves, you know, like, we're not going to post any video, but you see my video, like, I have my helmet back there with me, and, like, I have so many good memories with that thing. It's like part of my being. It feels like an appendage of my body, you know, it's like going to all these calls and hanging out with all these guys, and it's like I feel like I'm home when I get to hang out with you guys or my other firefighter friends, you know, or even just when I'm driving down the highway going on vacation and I see another union sticker. Like, it's. It's just so nice to see that, like, you just feel like you're part of something. And. And I think a lot of folks, you know, like, at least from my own department, you know, they. They think about, oh, you know, Nick, Lefty went on to something else. You know, they think that I don't care about the fire service. I didn't want to be a firefighter anymore, and it couldn't be anything farther from the truth. Like, I think about that every day. It just wasn't the path for me at the time, you know, And I. I love being able to be friends with you guys and hear about your stories and your day and what's going on. And, you know, I. I will never fall out of love with the fire service. It's so special. And if anybody's ever thinking about joining that journey or trying to get into this field, I know that it's not going to make you rich. And I know it's not going to put a Range Rover in your driveway necessarily, depending on where you work. But I'll tell you, it. There's nothing like it. There's no job I've ever worked that is like that, and it'll give you something that you can't get anywhere else for sure. Definitely. [00:22:48] Speaker C: I think, Nick, real quick, I just want to jump in and talk if there's a single boss out there listening. The one thing that was. I almost failed miserably at this, But Dave has been to the firehouse and has seen the situation I've got going in Hinesburg. Because if. If you're a boss. And you don't facilitate that culture. And you can facilitate that culture. Like if you, you know, sit down with the crew and have a coffee and actually enjoy that. Like, don't constantly. Not constantly look at your watch. Not constantly saying, like, what the heck are we doing? We got things to do. Got things to do. Guess what? The single most important thing that I've realized that I do is talk to. Talk to my people. Yeah. There's stuff that needs to get done. There's operational things. Sure. This stuff will get done. There's always tomorrow. And I almost failed miserably at that. But, you know, if. Single boss out there, whether you're a lieutenant, whatever you are. Oh, found it. Just make sure you. You don't mess that up. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. For those of you that are listening, we just got a nice picture shared in the group chat of Prescott's giant nose from above. Amazing you can hang a coat off. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Saving lives on a New York subway. Upset individual. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker A: You know. You know, the. You know, it doesn't end in the firehouse or your community, does it, Prescott? [00:24:11] Speaker C: Oh, God, no. This person needed help. [00:24:14] Speaker A: So I got one other thing. Just talking about, you know, the kitchen table and the firehouse, you know, we. We do. We've, you know, we've started doing, you know, Prescott started, you know, our recruit school a couple years ago. Three years, probably more than that now, right? Three, four years ago. And, you know, one of the things you always tell the new recruits, and it's same thing I then, you know, it's like, listen, right? Sit around at the table and listen, right? You're, you know, you're just not getting on the job. Get to know who these people are, know what their stories are. Know a little, you know, try to pick up something. Retain a little bit of information about each individual person, even if they're not on their shift. You know, it's, you know, trying to. Just trying to encourage that environment, and that helps that environment grow with the future. And if you can instill that in them, just to, you know, listen up and try to pick up some knowledge, pick up some intimate information from each individual, especially your shift mates, and keep your ears open to try to keep them safe and healthy. Check in with everybody. You know, try to. The kitchen table is an important, important, important aspect of our job. I will say, Nick, that on our shift, we sit in the apparatus Bay at 2 very nice picnic tables. [00:25:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:25:22] Speaker A: So that is our kitchen now. [00:25:23] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:25:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:24] Speaker A: It's a nice meeting place in the morning because our kitchen's on the second floor. So it's a nice meeting place in the morning for shift going on and the shift coming off. We're all right there. We're going to have your gear. You can still talk. You're not being rushed around to run downstairs and get your gear on a truck in the middle of a conversation. So that is kind of our new kitchen table for our shift in Williston. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And Prescott. You can unplug your headphones for a second, but really, anywhere where the Chiefs aren't is a great kitchen table. I mean, that's like my kitchen table moved around at a lot of firehouses. You know, it's been in the, in the basement, it's been in the oven upstairs. It's really anywhere where we're rotating around. But yeah, I think that's, that's a great point. I think the other piece of advice I got pretty early on, which always served me well, is treat every visitor like they're, you know, 27 year veteran. Because I've seen a lot of folks where, you know, a lot of, a lot of departments, the probationary members are opening the door and making the coffee and doing all that stuff. And you might have a guy that worked 30 years on the job and stops in to say hello, and if you treat them like, oh, are you lost? You need something like that can be really demoralizing for both parties. And there were times where I'd be like, oh, hey, how are you? Come on in, you know, can I get you a cup of coffee? And then I find out 20 minutes later that that guy served, you know, 40 years on the department as a backstep firefighter at one of the stations. And I'm like, man, I could have just asked him if he needed something, you know, and that would be embarrassing, you know, being a 20 year old guy. So I think just recognizing that this, this organization has been around for a long time, this has been happening for a lot longer than you have been around. So maybe just take a step back and, and try to get some perspective before you offer your own opinion on stuff that, that always served me really well. I don't know. You run into that, Whitney, you know, people stopping in the firehouse and the young guys don't know who they are, and you just try to coach them through how to have that interaction. [00:27:11] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, a lot of the department right now is not, you know, from in town, but the old, the old crew is definitely all encounters. So we see a lot of guys at the, at the at the supermarkets when we're shopping for dinner, you know, they stop by. We do do a retirement breakfast every, you know, twice a year actually. So the retirees do hang out a lot. But we are now a very, very, very, very young department. So there's a lot of guys that didn't get off too long ago that don't know a lot of the guys are saying now. So, so we definitely run into that and you know, you try to do your best of the guys I know to introduce, you know, the new guys that are on my engine when we see them. But you definitely know again, it goes to the, you know, the pride, you know, when you see retiree, they probably have some sort of Norwalk hat shirt, you know, still 10, 20, 30 years, retired off the job, you know, still, still wearing because that, you know, this is what we know. That's all they knew, you know, definitely back then. That's all they know. A lot of people are retired, you know, they always say, I wish I was still working, you know, but they're 85 years old. But, you know. Yeah. And to touch on what Dave said is, yeah, get to know your guys as a boss. Get to know your guys. Because you've all seen that boss that just goes in his office, locks himself in there, doesn't really keep in touch with the guys. I always try to, I always try to, you know, I've, I'm from the generation where I feel like I can kind of transcend, you know, the younger guys and the older guys. You know, I'm like kind of right in that between where it's like the older guys don't really understand how the younger guys learn, you know, and then they think they should learn from. And you know, like Nick talks about this a lot. They think they should learn from the, you know, hard handed, you know, there's, there's still got to be some of that. But there's, there's also a different way they learn and to be able to transcend that. But the point, like my point is get to know your guys because I can, I can tell, I can tell when one person walks in if they're off, you know, like say they're not on, you know, they're, they're, something's wrong with them and like just, that's just from getting to know them and understanding who they are and you know, talking to them. So I can tell when they're having a bad day and something's wrong with them. So. And like that all goes to being at the kitchen table and talking to the guys and understanding them. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Like Dave was saying, yeah, there's no textbook with. Right. There's. You can't, you can't pull up an IFSTA book on Jones and Bartlett on how to read your men. Right, Right. And Dave, you've been. One of the things I want to foot stomp that you do, talking about the retirees and everything like that. You, you're sort of the unofficial quartermaster, and for a lot of that, one of the things that you've done is, you know, there was some rigidity to be, you know, in Wilson and, you know, this goes to this person and better only have be one or something. Right. Well, guess what? A retiree walks in who hasn' in a while, and we have a new challenge coin. Well, Dave's going to give him a freaking challenge coin because they, they, they love the job. They want to be a part of that. So, Dave, I'm going to foot stomp that. And is that like, like you've always been a bit of a, a, not a breaker of rules, but a bender of rules. And as it turns out, you know, do you have a, a method to your madness or do you just recognize that people are important and you want to treat them right? [00:30:58] Speaker A: Well, it's a little bit of both. I mean, and, you know, and you know, these guys all know that I can be a little rougher on the edges with people. I'm one of those people that Whitney was just referring to. Right. I'm 53 years old. Right. There is that gap. And I'm not always the most approachable person, but I have a, you know, I, I really like to see the genuine personalities of an individual. I like to get to know these, the individuals before, you know, I, that's just, that's just who I am. Is there a method to my madness? Do I break, bend rules? I don't know if I bend rules. I just do what I think is right without getting anyone hurt. And I don't mean like, I'm going to, you know, disobey an order about, you know, how to extinguish a fire, but I am going to stand up for something that I feel is very important either to an individual or to the department. And we're talking about retirees or, you know, if we have kids, someone coming in for a visit, it's like, well, yeah, one of you go do it. No, we're going to take three of us and we're going to go do it. And we're going to give them a good Tour, and we're going to answer their questions and make sure they enjoy themselves. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. You guys know me better. I don't. You know, I kind of. It's just kind of built in there, I guess, to some extent. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I think if you just think about it, like, if you were to stand in front of a panel of 200 of your taxpayers and explain exactly what you did, would they agree with what you did? Like, that's. That's always been the metric for me. And I know for you as well, too, like, you know, there might be an officer or a chief or town manager once in a while that says, oh, Dave, I don't think you should have done that. But if it was the right thing, if it makes the constituents happy, if it's safe, if it improves the image of the department, if it takes care of you and the guys that you work with at the end of the day, like, that's what we all have to do. And I believe in my heart of hearts that the ecosystem of the fire service in general has to have those folks kind of steering the ship, whether they're formal leaders or not. Like, you need folks that are going to do the right thing even when nobody's watching. And. And I think sometimes that can be subjective. But, like, maybe, Whitney, you can add a little bit of perspective here. But, you know, when you have a subordinate, you know, you have to. At a. Some. At a certain point, you got to trust that they're going to make a good decision when you're not around. You can't constantly, you know, treat them like a robot that's going to look to you to. To get advice for every single situation they get put in. You got to hire the right people, give them support, and make sure they have the mentorship that they need. And then when it comes time, like, they got to make the right choice, and if they don't, then we got to look at that and figure out what's going on. [00:33:30] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I'm not in charge of the hiring, but we get what we get. Most of them are good, but I do, you know, I was trying to instill that. You know, I think one of my. The toughest things about become, you know, going from a private to a boss is getting, you know, I was on engine two, which is. Which was the headquarters which all the probationary firefighters went through. So, like, I was literally on a rotation of probie. Probie probing. Probie pro. Yeah, some. Sometimes two at a time. So it was like I literally, we'd be doing all their probi checklists. You know, they, they created a, you know, a probie first year checklist of all the skills they have to do and then get through that and get another one. But one of, one of the toughest things was correcting the issue when it needs to be corrected instead. You know, like going from private to a boss. It's like, I don't want, you know, you're a little gun shy and like, you know, trying to be the guy's friend or this is boss. So correcting the, like correcting the issue when you see it happen, I think is probably one of the biggest things that you need to do as, as a boss. So don't be scared to do that. If you do that, they're gonna, you're gonna set the standard. You're gonna set the, set the bar of what you are as a boss instead of, you know, like just letting things slide just to, you know, avoid conflict. So I think that was my biggest issue, which, you know, I'm still working. I'm three years, almost three and a half years is still, you know, it's still hard. It's like you're walking this fine line of I got to work with these guys in the firehouse and, you know, trying to figure them out, be their friend as well as their boss. So I think, I think one of the biggest things that I know in my head is correct is correct issues that arise as you see them. And you know, that's a textbook answer, but it does. It's there for a reason and it proves it for it, you know? [00:35:40] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure, man. I know. Like, my last two years at Burlington, I ran the recruit academy, so I dealt with a lot of that. You know, you get fresh people, you have them for 16 weeks. You have to get them through all this training, get them ready to hit the floor and go to engine companies and ladder companies and, and I agree with you. I think for me, it always worked well to set clear expectations ahead of time. You know, just, just explain exactly what it was that I needed them to do and explain it really clearly so the rules are very clear for them. And then when they don't follow the rules, you give that feedback so they know where they're at. And if you do that consistently, they're actually in a much better mood than when it's this moving target of they never know whether they're getting, you know, Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. You know, they're, they're like always unsettled. Around you. I mean, Dave, I thought you were great. When I started, I was like, holy crap, I gotta get my stuff in line. Dave's like, on me. And then I came to actually appreciate you, I think more so than any other person I worked with. And I think you can probably remember this, when I first started, you're like, oh, man, here we go. This hot Detroit 18 year old, like, what a pain in the ass. He asked all these questions. I'm sick of him. He's bugging me. Blah, blah. And here we are, freaking 15 years later, you know, best of buds. And I think it's because I was confident that I was a good person and I was ready to work with you and I was going to earn your trust and respect. And it didn't bother me that you would get, you know, ruffled around the edges or frustrated sometimes, you know, And I think you came to recognize that, like, I just wanted to do a good job and I wanted to be there for you and support you when you needed it. And it took some time to get there, and I was okay with that. And I think some people aren't always that way. So what have you seen, you know, with your experience in the fire service about people who are successful and last, what are some qualities that you see in folks that are doing a good job, that stay in this career for 20 years? What are some common threads? You see? [00:37:32] Speaker A: Good listeners. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Good listeners. You know, I. We just. I just taught our recruit class yesterday. I did communications. And as the Prescott knows, and you all may know, maybe not. No, but I usually give everyone out of the room besides your recruit speech. Right. And it's kind of, you know, it's not going to be as polished as what, you know, some might expect. But one of my. One of the things. One of the first things I tell them is, listen, we're not here to be friends right now. We're. You're here to show us and the community in yourself that you can do this job and you belong here. Once we. Once we. Once you prove that to us, then we'll start working on friendships. And I'm not saying you can't talk to people and say, hey, but it's not, you know, you gotta. You gotta be right. Like Whitney said, you gotta set the standard right off the bat and try to at least get it in there so they know. They know that. But, you know, I don't know. Good listeners, I think, is really what makes. What. What makes, I don't know. A good, A good candidate. I know. Like, you had Nick. You know, Nick is. You're hounding. As much as it annoyed me, I was like, oh, man. But this guy's gonna be good. He's gonna be one of those guys we want in here, coming in, filling in one of those shifts, right? So you're like, all right, and you. And you move on. And sometimes just, I don't know, I'm just babbling, I guess. But it's just a little. It's difficult, right? It really depends on the individual. Depends how it's presented to you. And again, is it being corrected and are they being guided in the right direction and reminded? Hey, remember we said, you know, just make sure you should be listening. Maybe it's not time to speak up. And if someone was like Nick here that was really aggressive and wanted to know every single thing there was to know about the fire service, to better themselves, then you best find some time to help them and give them that direction or find someone, send them to someone that has the knowledge or has the time that maybe it's not you individually, it could be somebody else. Hey, you know what? This guy's really good with pumps. If you want to go out and pump, we'll get you pumping. I know you've only been on for a month, but if you want to do it, let's go do it. The next thing you know, you know, you guess you get a guy that's like, very happy, got some personal one on one training, and then he ended. And then, like Nick said, we're all still here, we're all friends, and he had a good career at the fire department. I don't know, it's kind of. Kind of where it lays with me. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. I think you got to just recognize too, on both sides of the equation that when it comes time to deliver, you, you just have to deliver, you know, and whether that means spending more time drilling, whether it means going to outside classes or reading books, you know, And I think that was really what generated, you know, between you and I, Dave, I think that's what generated our friendship is when we went to tough calls and you needed me to do something, I did that thing correctly. And it wasn't. It wasn't some, you know, blindness, talent, or luck of the draw. That was because, you know, you and I spent time drilling. And when I asked you to practice something you taught, took time and helped me practice that thing. And then when it came time to do that thing, I accomplished that thing. And I think That's a really key component of this relationship we have with our fellow firefighters that, you know, you don't necessarily need in a bank, but you need on the fire ground, you know? [00:40:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I saw one thing. What you. You just saying that one thing came to mind was the fire we had up on South Road. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Middle of the night, it was you and I and Emily. And I was driving the. I was driving the. The Was. I was the only. Was Emily full time then or was it just me? [00:41:12] Speaker B: I think she was like, she might have been on probation. And I was like. [00:41:16] Speaker A: It was just me driving the. I'm the senior guy driving a truck. Nick's in the seat, Emily's there. We're rolling up. We're here. There's a person trapped. Right? We could see. You know, the chief's given an update, and I'm like, let's just turn over. Look at Nick. I'm like, you know what to do. I got it. And that was it. I forgot about him and Emily because I know that he would make sure they. Them working together would be fine. I wouldn't have to worry about them. So now I could just worry about what I needed to worry about. Right. And. And then, you know, and getting. Being able to switch gears real quickly. Nick went from, you know, putting a hand line onto a structure fire to the resident bailing out the back window, having a severely compromised airway. Right. So then the next thing you know, I was on scene by myself with the fire chief, and my two firefighters are driving to the hospital in an ambulance with an injured patient. So I think, again, it just makes. It's good making someone that's well rounded. It's just getting those younger people to understand why that discipline is important, why listening is important. Why are we being a little bit critical of you? Because it turned you. Turns out and generates individuals. I think like, anyone was talking. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but we can go. We can switch, do this, flip the switch in a second. And, you know, having people like you guys on a team is what everyone dreams of. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. No, And Eddie, Eddie, you have a good background too, because you. You've been an engineer over there and down in wiha, and. And one of the cool things about that type of structure is that, you know, the engineers are the ones that operate that apparatus. And can you talk just a little bit about, you know, why is it so important that those. Those drivers have that trading background and that they can perform under pressure? You know, what does that look like, and why does it exist down there? [00:42:55] Speaker E: Let's see. So, like, down. Down where I work, we. We have promoted positions. We have firefighters. So we start as firefighters. Right. Like, waiting privates. And then you can either promote after two years to become a driver, and then all you do is drive for the rest of your career until you promote up to lieutenant and then captain and deputy or whatever. But I don't know. Driving as a driver, I feel like you learn the truck, you become one with the truck. It's kind of corny, I know. Really, really corny. But literally, little nuances. Like today. So today I was driving the truck. I was like, oh, it's pulling to the right. That's kind of weird. I checked the tire pressure was at 80. We went out of service, went to DPW we got it fixed. I forgot what I was saying. What was your question again? [00:43:45] Speaker B: I was saying, like. I was saying, like, you know, why is it. Why does it matter? Like, why. Why spend so much time and energy being good at what you're doing and. And, you know, being able to operate those trucks the way that you do. You know, what. What's the purpose? Like, why do they even have engineers? [00:44:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker E: One that operates our. So our streets are kind of tight. Some of the streets are pretty tight. Driving the trucks down, some of these streets. Less accidents. They say there's less accidents. I feel like we're having an accident, like, every other week. Yeah. You just get to learn the trucks, the ins and outs of it, and you get everybody there safely do the job, and it just becomes like muscle memory. We had a fire here a week ago. As drivers were required to know where all the streets are sometimes we have a lot of. We have. I have an overtime boss every day. Every day. Because I don't have. I don't have a boss from the Ghost, but I know our district pretty well. So I was like, okay, I know what street. The iPad dinged. He said, hey, we have a structure. I was like, oh, cool. Sweet, cool. I'm getting off the highway. And I said, what street? You just got to tell me what street it is. And he said, the street. It was Price Boulevard. I said, okay, I know where that is. I know where the hydrant is. I'll park there. So we park. [00:45:09] Speaker D: We. [00:45:09] Speaker E: I get him to this. He's getting dressed. I know we're not supposed to, but whatever. He's getting dressed. I get to the street. I help the firefighter pole line. And then I threw it through, gave him some water, and the fire went out, right? Yeah, I guess. Important thing is the guys here, they have the knowledge of it. Streets, how the pump works, where the water system is. A lot of the guys here, because we run medics, they bounce through all the medic cars all the time. So they're constantly running medicals. Nice to have, nice to have like continuity if somebody who knows the piece, knows the area, district. Yeah. [00:45:55] Speaker C: So Eddie, real quick on that. I think what you're describing is a specific role which you are in that. That is, you know, you've, you've learned the truck, you've learned the craft. The people around you hopefully have done the same thing. And the common denominator that I'm hearing, which is training. Training is the great equalizer. And just do you, you know, how much training did it take to get you to a point where you feel as if you are. Indeed. Yeah, it's corny, but you really are one with the truck. Stories you've told, or even that story you just told before you forgot where you were at. The, the, the reality of it is how much time does it take to get you to that point. I don't mean hours like, but to get to a point where training became the great equalizer. And you recognize that whether you was the engineer, the firefighter riding backwards, or the boss to your right, whether they be a step up boss or not, where you trust each other to, to accurately put the fire out like you just had happen a while back. [00:46:51] Speaker E: Oh yeah. All of our drivers, we, so we just recently started this driver's academy. Takes two weeks. Two weeks. So from soup to nuts, really, you start beginning, you start, you know, the mechanics of the truck. Everything from CDL channel, CDL check to pumping to running aerials and all that just for training. And then every year we kind of do like an annual driving of each truck because some, some people, they don't, they don't drive the bigger trucks. Like truck three. It's a 100 foot crimson. That thing is a behemoth. It's got a bucket on it, it hangs over. Not really many people are used to it. And it's heavy. £80,000. That thing's a beast. Doesn't really like to stop. But the thing is, it has its limits and capabilities. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And Prescott, I'm gonna, I'm gonna dish this one to you as my co host. I'm gonna let you finish this up here tonight for us because I think it's right up your alley. You know, I think what we're dancing around here is the Idea that we all love the job, whether, you know, you guys are all still in it. I still love the job every day. I love the fact that we're able to talk about this. You know, I miss it every day. It's an amazing career, and I really encourage anyone who has an opportunity to get into it to please get into it. You won't find anything else like it anywhere else. And it's okay to love the job. Like, I've heard you say that many times, Prescott. Like, it's. It's totally fine to love this job and to really do a good job doing it. And I think what we're. We're kind of dance around here is this idea of when the ball comes to you, you have to have put in enough time to make that shot. Like your career and your co workers and your truck company, your chiefs, the people that are working with you are relying on you to get that job done. And so it's on us, both a crew and an individual, to make sure that we're in a position to make that happen when it's our time to do our job. So what advice can you give? You know, both, maybe from a firefighter's perspective, coming up through the ranks and now as a fire chief, about, you know, doing our job correctly and loving the fact that we can do it correctly. Like, how do we build a culture where that. That's not just, you know, something special, but that's. That's just the daily expectation. [00:49:16] Speaker C: Yeah, that's such a good question to wrap things up here, because it is about culture. Use that word. And that it starts right from, you know, all of us here, whether it be a group text or. Or whatever department you're from. You develop that culture by training together, by sitting at the kitchen table, drinking coffee, and then running out and drilling. It is the great equalizer. And when you know that you can go from the kitchen, kitchen table, shooting the breeze together, you know, griping about whatever else you want to gripe about, and then two minutes later, be running, you know, out to the drill ground, or more importantly, be out on an emergency call. Medical, fire. It doesn't matter what it is. You're helping people. And you develop that culture by asking, you know, the TED Lasso, be curious. How about be curious about your own abilities and asking yourself, answering, truly, in your heart of hearts, can I do this job? Am I prepared for the 2am Report of building fire with people trapped? Am I ready for that? From a medical perspective, am I ready to handle the pediatric cardiac arrest? People's worst nightmare. But you have to answer that question. And guess what? It is not for everyone. We've been talking this job up so much, and it's fantastic. If anyone's listening and you're even pondering this job or you're just new into it, man, I hope to encourage you to keep on going. But guess what? If you ask yourself that question or you do a drill and you say, holy cow, right? Ask for more help. Seek that help. But at the end of the day, just recognize that if the answer to the question is, no, I'm not prepared for this, then do everyone a favor and pick something else. But work your butt off. Training will be your great equalizer. And find those other people who. Who ate it up just like you. [00:50:56] Speaker B: Yeah. 100, man. And I think we. Dave, we were talking before the show about, you know, sometimes it's just not meant to be and it's okay. Like, it's not a big deal. Doesn't mean that you fail at life. Like, this is. The world is a big place. There's a lot of things you could do. You could do everything from finger painting to firefighting to being an astronaut. Like, it takes all kinds to do all kinds of stuff. And we were kind of joking in the pre show about, you know, one individual that just, you know, couldn't find his way out of a wet paper bag. And it just took me having conversation one on one, just saying, listen, you seem like you hate it here. We probably don't love you here, so maybe we should go do something different. And then that person was like, oh, my God, thank you so much for saying that. I do not want to be here. And like, that conversation, as simple as it sounds, sometimes like, we force ourselves to become something that we're not. And it's okay. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean that you suck. It doesn't mean you won't be happy. It's just. Maybe that's not the path and just be. Be at peace about that. But for those of you that are out there and that you believe you want this, you get into it and you love it, it's okay to embrace that. It's okay to dive into it and go to courses. I mean, like, you know, Whitney and Eddie, like, I didn't work directly with you at Williston, but we met a lot at conferences because we love this job. And a lot of those conferences, we're paying our own way. We're just hanging out with buddies. We're you know, going out for hot wings and Guinness. And we're just listening to people who have done this job for a lot longer than us tell us about how we can be better. And I think that that's a really special part of this culture. So I want to thank you gentlemen for joining me tonight. We gotta hang out non. Virtually. We gotta, we gotta get together and figure this out, man, and, and we'll, we'll just, we'll rent a party van or something to get down there to Connecticut and see you boys. But I appreciate you being here tonight. You know, Prescott, thank you always, you know, for being here. I appreciate that. Dave, thanks for joining in. Great to have you on the show again after a few years. I think it's been probably five years since you were on the show originally in season one. Whitney, welcome. Hopefully this was an enjoyable experience and wasn't like, too traumatizing. We can have you back at some time. [00:53:05] Speaker D: It was great. [00:53:06] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, man. No, I appreciate it. And, and you're, you've added some, some really important content that I think people have, have drawn a lot from. And Eddie, I really appreciate you making time. I know it's not always your cup of tea, but I appreciate you being here. Thanks, man. [00:53:18] Speaker D: Thanks. [00:53:21] Speaker B: All right, stay safe out there. [00:53:22] Speaker D: All right, take it easy, guys. [00:53:26] Speaker C: See ya.